There we go. Right? Hi, my name is Steve Marvel, this is crucial survival. And today I'm talking to Troy, a online fitness professional about excuses and self accountability. Joy, thanks for coming up. I've got that title, right. That's online or Oh, absolutely, man. It's great to be here. Thanks for having me. Yeah, that's good fitness professional. Coming from the brick and mortar world. COVID kind of set us down. So we're mate, we're pivoting to go 100% online. Fantastic. And International, presumably? Absolutely, man. Great, great. Today, and it was today we were talking about this. But I made an excuse for myself. And I'm not normally the guy that makes excuses. But it was checking it down with rain. And I needed to go to the shops. And I said to myself, and it's almost in a vocal way. Actually, it's raining, I'm not going to go to the shops. Yeah, this was an excuse I generated for myself, to give myself permission not to go to the shop. And that is a sort of general thesis that I've got is that people have a tendency to make an a make up an excuse, so that they don't have to do something, and they have comfortable with that. And they they give themselves permission to essentially fail. Are you finding that maybe in the fitness industry? I think we find it everywhere. I think we're all guilty of it at some point. You know, some are better than others. I think it's a matter of prioritising. Yeah, you know, I think in your own mind, you give something a certain value, like, you know, a certain worth is this has to be done, or I need to do that. But we can wait. And I think, you know, it kind of goes along that spectrum. But yeah, I think we find it everywhere, especially in the fitness world, because physical fitness takes It's hard work to transform your body to transform your mind is some hard work. So I feel and how you were saying there about training your mind? What is it? What is it you you, as a trainer? Do for people that that helps them with that? what's what's the change that's sort of going on there? Oh, well, it's it's unique to every individual. Some people respond well to criticism, some people respond well to being told that they're, that they're a piece of shit. Some people respond to that, you know, telling them that they're not good enough, because then they respond by wanting to prove you wrong, tell them they can't do something. And then they'll, they'll be sure to do it. And then there's other people that need some more positive reinforcement being told they're good enough, being encouraged to do it being encouraged to believe in themselves. So it's really unique to each individual. And you kind of have to get to know somebody to be able to do that, you know, probably Yeah, yeah, I found when I'm teaching in survival courses, people, I've put them in a safe environment where they can try all sorts of creative things. But I've given them some instructions to do very important things like lighting fires, and making shelters and their acts, they're actually quite hard to do in poor conditions. Lighting fire in a in poor conditions, is is actually quite difficult. People I've found not so much young people have, have just simply sat back and said, I can't do it. And I, I often think that that's my fault for not teaching it well. And certainly when I was teaching mathematics, I came to the conclusion that if somebody didn't get it, it wasn't because they were stupid. It's because I hadn't taught it in a way that they understood it. Absolutely. And then I think to myself, I've been teaching this fire lighting to 1000s of people. And you can just spot when somebody is not that they've not listened or something. They've just decided and they can't do it. And they the back almost begging for him help. And, and I'm not willing to give it to them. Have you go and it becomes a almost a simulation of a life or death. type situation it's like if you didn't like this fire then you're going to get cold and you're not going to be able to cook your food and and I've actually used the phrase and I don't care is like Off you go yeah mastery and maybe it's wrong of me but I'm not particularly nurturing as such absolutely don't get me wrong i don't i don't shy away from helping people hands on who I really really trying and just not getting it absolutely but I'm not very Go team about it more likely to flip on to the well I'm not going to do it for you if you go on I mean if that's the kind of coach or teacher that you are educator and that's that's just that's who you are and I'm 100% support that I try to you know I try to bend where I can but there's all you know for me as well there's a point where I'm like okay well then this just is not for you you're gonna have to find somebody else yeah because there's some people there's just no getting through to there they live on excuses. I think you know it might be getting worse nowadays I think victimhood status people seem to find value in being the victim which is which is you know very poor absolutely no yeah so what's what sort of excuses are you finding in the fitness world and are they literally skipping to another trainer because you're not allowing them to to fail in that way um, you know I guess there's a there's a bunch of them age is a big one a lot of people all I can't do that I'm too old you know one of the great one of the best ones I got to share this one of the best excuses that I have gotten in trying oh sorry we're off the table there. One of the one of the craziest excuses I've heard from people when I'm you know talking to them about getting in the gym and getting started you know on their fitness journey is I need to get in shape before I join your gym. And I'm like, so you're telling me that you need to get in shape to get in shape? You know what I mean? Like Yeah, that's me that that is that is one of the most popular excuses I've ever heard is I have to get in shape first and I'm like you're not doing that so like come to my gym I'll get you in shape. Age is a big one. I'm too old for that I'm not strong enough it's it's intimidating. I don't like being around other people. I don't like being watched. I mean there's there's a there's a bunch of a man i don't know i don't have the money. Right as Yeah, I suppose time and money is a is a factor that we as as trainers can help a great deal we can know because in most cases in majority of cases they're they're lying to themselves. For instance, you will say I can't afford to come to the gym. I can't afford a membership but you can afford to buy a Red Bull every day or you can afford to buy you know fast food every day. Yeah, yeah, we can afford those things but you can't afford to benefit your health you know, they'll literally pay to essentially kill themselves slowly by you know, buying things that are poor choices for their health and then they use that as the excuse that they don't have the money to go to the gym it's like you can change your spending habits for one week of your month and afford a gym membership. Yeah, learn how to do it in your house. I mean that's what we're we're focusing on now is building a platform for people to be able to workout at home without the need for equipment so yeah I've did the same during the COVID blocked down I don't know how many weeks in a row you had that but he had extensive here and and so yeah it was Chin up bar and a few weights and bands and the like that was the only way and so that it's funny your your story it's much like the I've got I've got to clear up before the cleaning lady gets here right yeah her to see the house like this right? Yeah, yeah. I've done it myself. You know, I find my I make excuses every day you know a little bit. Again it comes to that prioritising like okay, that's not I can wait till tomorrow to do that. You know, so it takes it takes some serious focus to do it yourself. When it comes to the self accountability part, man, it really takes focus and desire. That's that's something that it's very difficult to craft and I know I've done that over over years. And that was through pushing and pushing and pushing, and endurance events where I could get two thirds of the way through and say, I've done well, or, I've tried my best, right? without actually analysing what my best was, or in fact, having a history of knowing what my best could be. And I could have given up, but I didn't, and I kept going. And it was this realisation that actually, and it wasn't the mind over body as such, but it's a I could have given up then, but I can do it. Oh my god, what if I actually started listening to that rubbish, right? Yeah, yeah, you know, I trained myself consciously to do to do that. But that was only through my own wrecking mission within myself. I'm not sure that everybody can do that. I don't know what do you think? I think everybody can I think it's a matter of I think it's possible you know, as we can say that right? Anything is possible. So I think it's possible for anybody it's just a matter of if they want to if there's a piece in them or something belong in their life to that wakes them up to it, man, it's insanely funny moments, you know, where we're all formations take place, like in that moment you talk about you were two thirds of the way in, and probably exhausted, probably dying inside. Yeah, you say it's not a mind over matter. But it is, man, it's absolutely a mind over body because your body wanted to quit, I'm sure of it. Yes, but you kept going, man, it was something inside of you that did that something sparked that that epiphany, that breakthrough for you to find that in yourself. And that usually comes from moments like that, whether it be something intentional, like a marathon or something like what you did, or it's, you know, a traumatic event and, you know, death in the family, or loss of a child, something like that. It's a lot of times in those moments when you find those, then yeah, and yeah, and I, I agree I and I hold now I hold accountability to myself, and itself, this self accountability thing is actually very challenging topic. Gary Vaynerchuk, who people may or may not know, just offhand had said that. accountability is very, very important to self in business and bit broadcasting and own all sorts. And he gave the example of his trainer and that he will go to his physical trainer. And do E's workout and that's great. But if he could find an excuse not to go, he had to he would then check himself because he found himself accountable to the trainer. And I found exactly the same thing. As there's a guy there. I've and it's not so much that I've paid him it's that he's expecting me. And he's going to be good for me. And I really I'm almost doing it for him. Absolutely. Yeah. I think that accountability that that example isn't for myself that's accountable to him rid of it is though Yeah, because you don't want to you don't want him upset at you. You don't want him to heat up you don't want him to think you're a failure you don't want him to think that you are making excuses so as to come back to you it just it's using it's like a leverage is having someone there as a leverage. So that you like you know, we talked a bit before about whether you know, whatever you believe in the almighty or whatever it might be, but that in itself is something to be you know, people are using to hold themselves accountable. But But I hear you man having having something else they're having a coach. Yeah, it absolutely changes it makes it easier, you know, because you have to hold on to a certain Yeah, certain standards. So yeah, I am. And you you took shown I just then people, with with faith in some form of higher being, it's presumably easier to be accountable to them. In that, you wouldn't want to disappoint them or not be the best person. You can Be but no doubt the rain of excuses still exists there and possibly even attach opinion to that being as No, it would be okay. If this because of this thing that was written in this book, right, okay to do this, because I wouldn't want to pick a particular place, but it's it's so easy to just go round and round The houses to find this excuse and I'm and we touched on it is it is there such thing as self accountability at all is I know we've sort of looked round to a certain extent is how could he possibly be the case that you exist? And you're accountable to that person when it's easy for you to say no, it's okay. You tried your best. And you're almost having because i've i've quelled that conversation from happening. But is it not? I don't know. I don't know. I'm still having problems with. Well, I you know, like, I'll go back to what I said before, I think that it's kind of like when someone says you're selfish, you know, and then you help somebody else. Well, I'm not I'm not I'm helping somebody else because I want to help them. But what was the key in that right? I said, I want to help them. So I still did it for me. Even if I'm helping my neighbour, pick up a yard. Well, I'm helping someone move it, whatever. I'm still doing it because I want to do it for me, I want to help them. But why? Because that's going to make me feel good. So I think maybe self accountability might be somewhat the same where it's almost it when you admit, let's say the you hire a coach, whether it's fitness or whatever, you hire a teacher to educate you and to help you a mentor. You did it because you felt you needed that to get you there. So that in itself by hiring that person is a form of self accountability. Yes, yeah. Okay, I can understand that. Yeah, that is that is true. So what's the key to that? What's the key to inspiring that self accountability? Um, I don't know. It's such a desire to grow man, a desire to be more than what you are today. And I think that's the deal with everything right. Comfort and complacency. lead to stagnation, man. Like it's Yeah. Sitting there comfortable. Yeah, on courses, harping back to courses. Because I've, I've most experience with number of people that I've taught is that one of the people that had the excuses that I didn't care about, and I told them, I didn't care about them, because I knew at that point, they were capable. Actually, when then the growth is huge. At that point. Yeah. And to that extent, they start challenging themselves and get more wins and wins and wins. And wins. In the face of excuses. Seems it's not so much a desire to but it's a proof that it's that I can because I've proved it to myself, because I wasn't given the choice. And like fitness, again, we're talking about trying trying our best. If I'm doing a flat bench on my own, I will probably fail. Sorry, I will stop at about two reps. shy of the amount of reps that I can do. But if I've got a trainer, they will they will spot me. So in that case, there is no danger at all because I can go all the way to failure. Like the anything to do with endurance where people literally drop that that is failure and when you are pressing, and you literally can't get that any further and the trainer is caught that for you. Now you know what failure is? And that's I think that's a strong piece of information. And so yes, yeah, just having that extra having that person there definitely provides a will get you to the next level. That was one of the things that I wanted to talk about today was, huh, do you mind if I share the short story, you can share as what? As much as you want? Right? I'll tell you how I became a coach. It's an interesting story. So years ago, I got into fitness through my own my own means by beating depression actually dealt with bad depression in my my teens in my early 20s. And physical fitness was my medicine man, that's what got me out of that. And that's what's kept me kept my mind balanced. But through that, I had some friends, we started a fight team, we trained MMA, and we would go to Colorado and drive, you know, six hours, 12 hours round trip to go fight for free. And we had a lot of fun doing that. And I trained alongside them. And then one night, me and me and the guys were messing around, and I tried what's called a flying armbar. I had never trained it. I've never practised it. It's Yeah, I found out the hard way that it's super dangerous. And not you know, I had a couple drinks in me, I probably shouldn't have been doing it anyway. But so I jump up and I try this flying armbar. And my buddy slams me into the floor, separated my shoulder, cracked a rib, you know, concussed myself pretty good. And I couldn't train I couldn't do anything for about three months, I couldn't my right arm, I couldn't barely shift my car from park to drive without my shoulder pulling out of the socket slightly. So I couldn't do anything. So in that time, I became the coach. So instead of training with them, and doing it all with them, I started being your coach full time. And it was through that, that I learned the true power of it. Going back to kind of what you said there about doing the flat bench and getting them extra two reps. Because when I was there to push these guys, what I thought we were doing good. When I became the coach, these guys took it to an entirely different level. And yeah, it was insane to watch. And that's when I absolutely fell in love with coaching and helping other people to achieve that. Because it we couldn't do that without having without having a coach there. Yeah. proof in the pudding. Absolutely. For my mind, my background has has mathematics cheating, amongst other things. And when I started training outdoors, I think I felt a transition between to being a teacher and, and a coach, if you like it's not it's not a phrase we use much in the UK apart from in sports. But yeah, I found that now I was sort of coaching and mentoring and working people through more than just skills training. And I gained a lot of love of people, not only blossoming in skill, but in but in character. And Dr. Dr. was with with something that really made me foreign fall in love with it. And like I took a huge pay cut. We're working from it to teaching 100 nights a year outdoors, but I loved it. I loved it. And and yeah, I loved it, too. One might say selfish reasons. But I think the balance to to other other people was the huge, there was even a guy and I was we were on a five day course. And he got so far into it that after five days finishing on a Friday, he quit his job on the Monday if he wanted to go out and be an outdoor teacher, because not only did he start loving the outdoors, but he'd also seen that people had flourished outdoors. And he said he just wants to work with children and what watch them flourish in the same way and absolutely, yeah, I've seen families it's it's it's amazing. And children and as a particular story of a group, which were I was so surprised and there was there's a group that came over from Holland. I can't remember exactly what Well, somewhere in West Western Europe, and they were a series of cadets, they were coming on a five day course and they came with the staff from their own was not regiment as searching cadets, I've caught my example it was and it was it chopped it down with rain. He chipped it down with rain for two and a half days. And I've never seen people work so hard to light a fire. Because, and they and they listened. And they tried and they failed. And they tried and they failed. And there's only one course that's had that level of brain I've worked cold courses. But that took two and a half days of rain. That's crazy. All I got is their gear, bit of gear and a knife, a fire steel and a bin bag. But how much value man how much value is that? They all ask. That's insane. That's a trick that most that 90% of the world can't do. And now they can incredible. In fact, 90% What are maybe not as much as 90, but have we ever beat the people that have actually been on courses? They're variously outdoors be bushcraft, or survival. Can't do that. Yeah, absolutely. And that's crazy. What's what if annoyed me, was that their member of staff gave up. He gave up in no time. And he just went and said, I'm not I can't do it. I can't do it. I can't do it. And so you can know what kind of example you saying these guys. It's hard to get there mentally. But for others, it's set for some it's easy. For some, it's hard. We were talking before I mentioned to him in the lead up yesterday when I mentioned david Goggins man, I've been listening to that guy like crazy because, yeah, that's incredible. Listen to his story. And he did that all with himself. He did that all for himself. So if there's a there's an example of self accountability, that's the man. Yeah. You know? Yeah, that's a different human being. It seems. Yeah, I was talking to chuck called Timmy. There's an interview on online. And yeah, he's a he's a big fan of David Goggins as well, is that that that focus, that drive is just huge, huge. And so moving on to the real survival situations, I have often wondered, because none of the people that have been on a course unfortunately, somebody that has suffered, didn't make make it to the cause. Nobody who's done a course has been in a catastrophic, so I will situation. And as far as I know, since Of course, nobody has been on a catastrophic survival situation. I wonder what happens to people when they they get there? If they are the excuse, type people, does that just go out of the window? Do they because certain amount of people provably documented cases have sat essentially sat down and died? Yeah, a particular aircraft landed is either in Greenland or Iceland. I can't remember. He was a he was an Air Force pilot. He crashed landed. People knew where he was going to be roughly. He had thermal suit, as will be the case. All the equipment he needed and what what they found him in no time at all. He walked out a kilometre round in a circle, come back to his plane and they found him with his service revival rover in his hand. And he ran out what's up me one second man, my dogs barking outside. I'll be back. Yeah, that kind of sorry. Is it super unfortunate and there are there are many instances where you say this. This is super unfortunate that people have that mindset. And I don't know whether or not that say Did he have the IE B have that sort of excuse mentality? Or did you just have the sort of account? Was it I can't do it? Or is there no hope? What? If we take these people that are excuse oriented? and stick them in a survival situation? Just do they instantly change to imagine what Well, yeah, imagine not man. I mean, based on that story, I would, everyone's obviously different. Some people have the strength to keep going that internal drive and other people have excuses, man. Um, yeah, like I said earlier, I think it's possible for everyone to get there. But does that mean everyone does? I don't know. Obviously not. No. And that's there's something else we were talking about in pre thing was something after after I'd had my stroke. A little while later, probably a year, or 18 months, I took on a personal trainer who happened to live behind my house. And I had said to him very directly, because he'd asked about my agility and dexterity stereotyping, I should say. I said, Yeah, this is what I've got. And I'm happy with this. Yeah, it's like that. If, if this is what it is, or wherever, then I'm happy with that. And he said, No, I say I've got haven't necessarily got a solution. But we're going to try some things. And he gave me that they waited clubs, like bowling pins. Yeah. Yeah. Whatever called I know what they are to. Yeah, I know what you're talking about. And he had me doing a club called a club bell. Is that right? Yep. Yeah, we're really, really weird. But yeah, just just give me this n, n, n out and forwards and backwards. And in and out. It was a couple of weeks only, that I found that neurologically the change in my entire arm. And the other one, obviously, was extensive. And I actually beat myself up to a certain extent, because I'd accepted. I don't want to say it was defeat, but it was in a level where things could go, it was okay. Now you're comfortable. And I remember it reminded me of the time with the insurance walk, where I'd got two thirds of the way through and didn't carry on. Sorry, I did carry on I but I hadn't with this arm thing. And I compared them, and it's like, you should have just carried on. And I think I think it's probably because I didn't understand that they was a few. There was no, I didn't understand that there were exercises that I could write on. But did I did I give up? Is that giving up? Because I was getting comfortable? That's just getting comfortable? You know, I don't think that's given up. Yeah. I think getting comfortable man. And we all do. And it's a good thing. We have that right. It's a good thing that to an extent we have that. So that had that been the base level. And you couldn't have gotten past that, let's say for instance, a full paralysis of the lower body, right? It's good thing that we have that mechanism to go, Okay, I can accept this. This is good enough, because in some cases like that, you'll never get your lower body back. Right. Yeah. So it's great that we have a mechanism in our mind to accept it. But it's also good to understand that in most cases, with the exception of you know, those catastrophic things like again, full paralysis, in most cases there is there is a higher ground, there is a better level. So, yeah, so it's good both ways. It's just good to be aware of it, though. Yeah. I like to say it's, it's a it becomes a bit I think if if people certainly say stroke victims, just keep trying to go and go and go, and things don't improve. That could probably become quite depressing. But could be absolutely, yeah. And so. Yeah, good thing that you kind of went into it with the acceptance. And yeah, it's very fortunate that you were able to gain from that and get better. But I think yeah, I think that acceptance to a certain point is beneficial. Yeah, the mental health. Yeah, I agree. It's you got to catch yourself though it's a matter of if you will find yourself in your mind wishing more being okay with it, but still find yourself wishing for more. I think you got to follow that man. I think if there's a wish you got to fight for it, man. Yeah, I agree. I agree. Absolutely. Um, how? How to try, I think. I don't know, I've been through some stuff. I think I, I've got that because I think it's a very small window. of, there's something I can go for. And there's an excuse that gives me permission. Absolutely. To stay still, or simply fail at the task that I'm trying to achieve. I've on a I can't remember you on the one phone. Oh, away. Yeah. I thought I'd say sales sort of 30 Day Challenge. And I got I got a week behind. Oh, it's a nightmare. They tell you they tell you in the beginning that it's like two hours a day. And then you realise that two hours a day is just watching the videos. Yeah. You have to put in as you're putting it through for four hours minimum a day. Yeah. And you get to week three, and it's like, holy shit. Yeah. How am I supposed to do that? A eight hours a day job? Right? And eat? Yeah. Maybe man, but I got a wife and kids. You know, I got to keep up around the house and do dishes and laundry. And I got other things to do. Man, that was a tough challenge. Supercenter? Did you? Did you get through it? Or I'm in my own way, I didn't complete it as they want me to No, no, no, no, did I what I've not done, because I watched myself get far behind. When you see once he got to two days, and three days, it was ultimately a week. But it was two days and three days, I could have said on our calendar. I do see the numbers because you can see the numbers of people in the consultation calls. And the number of people contributing this massive drop off as as the challenge progresses. And I was really I was disappointed in them if you like and I don't know, though, that that that actually happened people with such drive at the beginning just disappeared. Now. I get it though I did it and I didn't you know, it was I could go into detail on it. But um, there it was, like you said it was tough. I mean, if you don't have that time and you have other obligations. There are times when it's it's a matter again of prioritising do I do the one funnel away challenge or do I make my wife happy? times I gotta do I gotta keep her happy, man. So there were days, I just could not I couldn't sit down and spend the six, seven hours it took to catch up. So yeah, no, absolutely. You know, I ever go ahead and open. I've put myself in a position now, where I've said, I accepted that was getting behind, didn't stop just carried on. And I'm just doing it again. There you go. Yeah, I saved every head. Now. I'm gonna be ahead probably two weeks. And I can start week three, again, but we hold on. I mean, this particular challenge is a Marketing Challenge. And you have 30 days to do it. And at the end of it, it all disappears. That's the I was just explaining what the, the National challenge was. It's like you start and the end all of the material disappears. Right? It was was quite, I was concerned about that. But at least it get Dave didn't give me the excuse to, I'll just wait. Because I'll be able to do it in my own time. And that's what they said at the beginning. It's like, you have to have it. Recently, I've announced that my product will launch on the 14th of December. And I've got some work to do. And I think it's the only way I'm going to definitely get it all done. Right. You got to know that something Hang in there. And it's it's, it's gonna, it's happening. Yeah, I'm going to do it and I'm going to complete it and I think it I think I needed that. In order to do that it was priorities. Yeah, you gotta set Yeah, you got a credit, man. And when you like you swipe we talked about earlier, when you have other people that depend on you. It changes it changes your level of self accountability when there's other there's other people involved, man. Yeah, we find this, again, in survival courses. Traditional survival courses, the way they sold is that a course exists. And some people go to it. It's not like, the way I've done courses in the past is you accompany says, here we go. We've got 20 people, it might be the military. Here's 20. People don't teach them. They all know each other. Or it might be a team building thing. Okay. But generally speaking, they'll say, here's a course on this date, you can buy a place on it. And so you have random people who don't know each other and okay. You You may be split them into fours, so you can have a nice big shelter. Because everybody in one shelter with one fire eat, it's actually quite arduous to get everybody to do the work. But yeah, four people in a shelter, and they really, really have to work. And they become accountable to each other. And as soon as somebody is not, then it the group dynamic goes to hell. That's a man. You know, that's the key to the military, the military trains is that like, one person can screw the whole group up. So yeah, and then when you have, you know, 10 1520 other people around you pissed off because you messed everything up, man. Yeah, that would be Ryan, that'll get you to go. But then as as well I've, I know it's off track. But I've, I've seen it's not the mental stability as such, but the attachment that somebody can have to a stick. Once you've found your favourite stick, it might be a pokey stick, or something for putting, like, like hanging something over the fire when it's the perfect shape, and the perfect hardness. And if people leave their stick near the bay bed, for instance, if somebody burns that stick in their shelter. I've seen people not talk to each other for a day. Man, that's crazy. They have this so it's just a stick. No, it was my serious business. You know what when woodland filled it full of sticks, we guess but that was special. I was your mistake. I the guy. And he he's, he's one of the few people I think I've shouted at with that sort of, are you getting joking level of shouting? It said we're in the woodlands. Lighting fires. And he can't light the fire. I illustrate what why it's wrong. This Aren't you hadn't got the progression of this. You're trying to basically light a tree with some grass. There's the need that in between you thing is that Off you go. That's don't get some wood. That's this big this big in this big. Yeah. And he goes you've got an echo. He just moved in a microphone. I did. Yeah. My microphone fell. That's okay. Yep. So fine now so fine. Okay. Yeah. And so I sent it off. And he came back. And he said, there's no wood. I'm sorry. There's what? There's no wood. And they say we're in a woodland. And he's saying, Are you kidding? joking, right? Well, what did you go through what is going on in his head? He's he just so is he down that this is this is this is causing a problem? Or was he the guy that just found an excuse? It was just a very, very bad choice of excuse, right? That's bad. By getting back to the one I said, you got to get in shape to get in shape. Right? And you got to clean the house before the cleaning lady. Yeah, you're in the middle of the woods. But there's no wood right? Yeah, that's good. Yeah. So what if we discovered? I think I certainly agree with you that the ability to have that conversation within you, where you can stop being the excuse guy is possible in everybody. And I think it's quite possibly a learned skill. It is it's, it's not something that is not taught to kids, you know, in general in general education? Because it is, it's a secret Really? Yeah, I'm not entirely sure how one would teach that to children. But that's possibly in letting them know that it's possible. And, you know, we kind of, you know, I don't know about your neck of the woods, but I can say that in the United States over the last, you know, I've watched in my entire life over the last 2030 years, 20 years, specifically, the, you know, everyone gets a trophy, that kind of culture. What's the real deal? It's more prevalent in the state, certainly the pub trophies. So know. If we have kids here, they're teaching kids here that you don't have to try it. You don't have to be you don't have to get better that you're fine. Being mediocre, you're fine being less than average, which I I am thoroughly against. I don't think you need to pressure a person and make them feel bad, but I think you need to make them aware of what they're truly capable of. Maybe you can look at, there's different people in the world. There's people that were that are been born with no art. Give me a second chance. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So, participation trophies, but there are people in this world that were literally born with no arms and no legs and who have went on to become multimillionaires, who have an incredible impact on the world. Yep. If there's anybody that has an excuse, that's the person but if they can do that, we need to let the rest we need to be letting kids know, and driving into their psyche that they are capable of much more than Yeah, whatever level they're at. Yeah. And also it's okay to be not good at something. Because people are good at something. And not good. Man, find your passion, find what you'd naturally love to do. And then on that 100% that's how masters are made man. Yeah, I absolutely agree. You're saying about disability? the Paralympics is almost a better watch for me. Then. Able Bali able bodied Olympics. They it's obviously a massive effort to swim at that speed. Right? If no legs or manoeuvre around even a basketball court. And it's just but everybody's trying trying trying trying and if you had no if you had an excuse problem is sit at home watch Netflix. There will be two things I remember there was a programme and I think it was the UK based well I mean it was produced in the UK where they took a number of people into long the Amazon and in rain forest on an expedition who all had different levels of I think the the levels and that's this the different types of disability might be wheelchair bound there might have no arms or whatever relevant and there was a guy that was deaf. And he was the one complaining most our can't do this. I can't do and this guy I think he said literally. What do you fucking complaining about? I've only got one leg, right? Yeah, yeah. And again, it is excuse excuse. It exists Throughout, I'm trying to not repeat the same thing. But to come back to where I was before going sideways again, yes, I believe we can all do it. And we and it possibly is a fine line at that epiphany moment where you could have made that excuse or seen that and carried on and that, that when might just be enough to continue on that passive realisation that that excuse would have just given you a failure, which is nobody, nobody wants to fail. Do you have any other things you want to raise on that? Yeah, just kind of, you know, as you said, like, kind of what value what have we learned today? I think I would say maybe being made aware of the possibilities is a key to most people. A lot of people that use excuses simply don't believe that anything was possible. You know, that's one of the hardest parts is getting that breakthrough to happen. Because again, like we discussed before, that break that we usually the biggest breakthroughs happen when you're at the lowest point in life, you're either you're down, like you had a stroke and and now what I have, now you are forced to do something, you're forced to find that inner strength, loss of a loved one, you know, my wife and I, our second child was stillborn. We knew about it ahead of time. Still heartbreaking. And I remember the day I'll see our short story that day, the day at the hospital, I remember, like, walking through the parking lot, head down, sad, and a car pulled in, and was like revving their engine at me because I was in their way. And in that moment, I thought, instead of being mad at them, like, you know, if you treat me like that, look what I'm going through, I realised in that moment that I've been that person. I've done that to people. And I will never do that again. Because how do I know? You know, so it was like it was in that moment of dark of darkness that I had one of the best lessons in life, you know, and I think to this day, when people say, Oh, I'm sorry to hear that I say, there's no need to be sorry about it. It happened, it is what it is. But it was I learned more about myself and I grew more as a man in that process than any other time in my life. And that's when the breakthroughs are made. Yeah. And so let's say, Get get put yourself in an uncomfortable situation. And you'll learn something, you know what I mean? Yeah. And as, as we said, previously seen as well, those people who have lost everything, financially, say, I had I had a business go under. And that was just bankruptcy. I had nothing. Right beside. For, for me coming back from that was a big lesson and a great deal of the entrepreneurs that we hear about. Have any with your point that you raise is that they had been x their lowest ebb. Yep. And, like, right, off we go. That's it, man. Yeah, you got to put yourself in comfortable situations. today. I posted right before this interview. I said, I'm nervous. I'm anxious. But it's it's in these uncomfortable situations that we grow the most. And so we've got to learn, we got to learn and we got to help teach others to embrace that to embrace the discomfort in our lives and quit. Quit trying so hard to be comfortable, man. It's easy to be comfortable. Absolutely. I completely agree. Absolutely. Troy, it's been an absolute pleasure. Likewise, man, likewise. Thank you. Thank you for coming. And yeah, this will be available on YouTube. At some point it will be saying on Facebook for forever. And, yeah, no doubt. We'll speak again in a few hours. This was a good time. I appreciate it. Thanks for the opportunity. Great times. Thank you very much. Cheers. Bye.