In this interview with Timy (not Timmy) Flower, he tells us how he chose to become homeless, leave the toxic environment of the city, and head for Ben Nevis. In this inspiring story we learn about his experiences on the way and things that will challenge your perception of homelessness.
My name is Steve Marvel, this is crucial survival. And today I'm going to talk to Timmy flower, who's had some experience with homelessness. Welcome, Timmy. Uh, yeah, thanks, man. So today I found a thread on one of the bushcraft groups on Facebook, about homelessness and there were a number of people saying that they were homeless. And I said if anybody wanted to participate in an interview that they should get in contact with me in time he's done that and and so here we are on to talk about today is some of the mental and physical hardships that Timmy has encountered and some of the techniques that he's used to survive. Timmy tell tell me about yourself and how you ended up in a homeless situation. It was about four tiny it's funny, right? And this is the sub store I get everyone to get free ship. I got made redundant the second time. My girlfriend asked me and I was pretty broken at that point. So I decided to just head out you know, like Forrest Gump that I started walking with. I didn't even have gear at that point in what I was doing. I had my duffel bag with my gym shorts because I was doing gym every day and they close. So I ended up in Yorkshire and I just woke up one day I thought you know, fuck it. I'm gonna climb Ben Nevis man. Yeah, I'd always wanted to do the third peak. And at this point I had this idea that I wanted to camp and I went into a vape shop in easingwold and there was a guy in there who I this is crazy. He does not look like an ex army guy. But yeah, it really is like the full deal like 20 years in the regular ministry and then seven years in the life para Blue Blue regiment. Isn't it? Yeah. And I said to him look over the course free days I went into that shop a few times to get kit because I love vaping and he said let's see your Amazon wishlist and I was a complete noob at this point I still consider myself a newbie so much to learn right at ease going through is like um take on take that shit that shit that shit what you need all you need is a bivy bag and cookery oh you just you just go around recommending to young men to get get greasy is like now now that he was being honest because he's speaking from personal experience you know it's just legitimately The best thing you can get it's an all rounder good thing and my dad collects guns and knives and I tell him he's like no son is sick cut in throat you know i mean i said no it's it's survival and I've and then we have this argument that goes on for ages I ended up getting one out of spite you know to spine back pocket I got it from your Camry and it was dope. It was dope blade. It This is one thing I've learned if you're buying kit if the price is too good to be true then it is too good to be true. You have to fork out sometimes unless is surplus. Yeah yeah, I found that myself You can buy a even a pocket knife you can buy say 20 quid is a reasonable little pocket knife price, but you can buy one for three but if you want to actually use it for more than cutting paper or pencils, then this is just a waste of money and if it's a tool that you're going to use then it's really important that that it works I was teaching 100 nights a year outdoors while teaching survival skills and yeah I need to kit that was gonna last that wasn't your bang on the now my friend I mean the thing is I had this knife and I was going around the Yorkshire Dales and Moore's at this point trying to get up in early morning time cuz I was effective getting eight hours sleep before because I was by water the whole time getting my REM quick. What's it called White Noise sort of sleep again early and I think the first thing you do is fire right? Because I look at Pinterest and Pinterest sort of shares like oh you have to do the fire first before you do anything else or something. Okay, all right. It's gonna fog right? I can't even cut a piece of plywood with this blade is given me I've got a video I'm just like smacking it you know under the swarf always like it's not cutting So I take it back to him. I said, Listen, mate, it doesn't work like that I bought this tool and it's advertised as a survival knife and I can't even cut a Bramble. And he's like, Oh no, it still works. And he gets out a piece of cardboard as you're saying he starts like applying pressure with the cobble. And the cooker is like man is meant to cart with gravity alone and your story back and forth to get through this duct tape cobble without even the duct tape attached. And then, of course, a seated in the shop. And then I'm like, Look, where's the owner? I'm assuming at this point, because he's young that the owner is in Benidorm or some shit, and it's his dad. And I was banging on the now he said, Oh, you know, Daddy's in Spain. Okay, so it definitely skips a generation then. And he goes right down my shot. And I look at his knuckles, and I've got all these bruises on. So he's got anger issues, what have you. At this point, I'm like, right? Well, can I at least get a refund? And he's like, No, you can't get a refund. I'm like, why? And he's like, well, because you know, it does what it's advertised to do said, No, it doesn't. There's a difference of opinion here. And I spoke to some guy later who sort of knows his stuff. And he said that you should take them to trade regulations. But I don't have time at this point. I want to know who can who can do that. That's some some glib thing that people say, just off the cuff. They say, oh, trade descriptions, trade descriptions. I don't even know if trade descriptions is still a thing. Is this, this this? looked at it on Google and there was probably like this web page and a number. I sent them an email. Listen, if you got some random messaging you Oh, hey, I need help like getting this cookie. And I thought it is like you're probably used to dealing with like, jackhammers and shit. And big contracts of businesses like this one lone homeless person complaining a bit sketchy. So I didn't have the heart sort of shades. But at that point, I just decided to set off with it. And I tried to sharpen it over the course of the two months that followed, and asking strangers to sharpen the knife is not a good thing to do. That Hi, I'm homeless guy. I've gotten birtley military knife. I mean, I was concealed. I can't help myself. I can't sell I got a big knife or to show it off, you know? Yeah, it's worth pointing out. Dear viewers that the the knife no laws will play. I mean, that knife probably wasn't the kind of thing that you should have had, wouldn't you say? Especially when on public transport, but sometimes I couldn't avoid it. You know, I was trying to walk as much as possible, but sometimes you have to go through choke points. You have to go through town centres, so I'll keep it at the very bottom of my pack. Yeah, um Yeah, I remember I was I was teaching. I think it was in, in Yorkshire. And within within a course if you're doing a five day course on Dave and Dave, for you give everybody an apple and they think you're a god. But I had to go and get some apples so pot to the new shop, Sainsbury's or whatever, it was worth it. And I had my knife in doing Fruit Ninja. Insane. And I thought to myself, Oh, it's a folding knife. Only. I sort of claim wasn't that the devil that provided the apple got this phone folding knife in my pocket. I thought, okay, I could. I could put this in the bag that I've brought. Mm hmm. But that requires me to get it out of my pocket. To put it in my bag. I stink like a bonfire. Because I've been out for the last four days. And it was just like, okay, just walk. Walk around, like your own place model. And chances are nobody gives a damn. Get your apples. They really don't actually yeah. And no one no one really gets a shirt. I mean, I'm, I've been reading the forums and I mean, I've got a May. He works for the civil service, shall we just say, Yeah, and I asked him, you know, am I really when it came down to the worst case scenario someone mentioned that a place that Oh, there's a there's a wild Tarzan like s figure going around, chopping up public footpath blockades trying to help elderly people is that Oh, my hero. Thank you feel big. Now if that did happen. It's like, am I actually going to be able to stand up for myself in court based on you know, the law and legislation. I mean, I was I was reading it today. There's so many loopholes. I'm pretty damn sure you're allowed to own a repeating rifle as long as if it's too too. Huh? You sure? Now this is why I've asked my mate because I'm waiting for him to reply because I have no useful one. I mean, when I went to your camera, I also picked up a rest rocket. And uh, I was enjoying that, you know, clack, clack, you know, against some trees back there, and then the guy shit you're not the strap broke. So they gave me a tow knife and a wrist rocket that the strap broke or the second or third time You know, I'm in your car. Very Alright, let's get to it about tricky. I said, Look, mate, I found you on Facebook. And he's like, we don't have a Facebook page. It's like, Yes, you do. It's right. Here. Look, Matthew in the picture. At this point, everyone is showing us like, right, okay, I see frostmourne I see all the knives from law of laws of the rings. And I love that shit, you know, but these guys aren't experts of real sort of proper steel and whatnot. Yeah. I said, Listen, I want a second opinion from your gallery at this point. And he said, Oh, mommy owns that on my fucks. What's his knife mill monopoly that they've got going on there? Dude is crazy. And the problem is, is that that these these guys who know their trade, and they're sure they have children, and they want to get into it, but the kids aren't really inspired to do it's just a means of life, you know, getting money. Yeah, I know, hundreds of people who would love to work into inside a replica shop. But I'm asking all these 12 year olds like, oh, what do you know about this? What do you know about that? Is that just a part time job? Really? You know, assess something. Oh, yeah. So what else was on your Amazon wish list that you thought at the time was an important tool. Right? So I have I have loads of problems, man. Not I've fucked up person, man. And especially when it comes to financing. I get my Universal Credit at the start of the month on the 25th. And I got about 408 quid a month. Yeah, I meant to use that on food, really. But at this point, for the first time in my life, I started to get materialistic. I mean, I used to earn a killing when I was working in property, but I'd never buy anything for myself, I lived on a mattress on the floor. You know, Mitch, I'd spend all my money on booze at the start of the month taking people out, you know, I mean, and then for the rest of the month, I'll eat sardines and peanuts, I had no understanding of how to look after myself. It was only when I did care work after being redundant that I looked after others, I understood how to look after myself. And that was when I had less money. I had things. I found that I found that interesting, you know, so I'm homeless, and I've got more material goods than I've ever had before. And I can understand why people were like, Oh, dude, that homeless guy is a private jet or some shit, you know? A property does, but he's still homeless. And you can't take that away from him. Yeah. Yeah. So so they they use, they've started with redundancy, you've ended up losing your partner. and off you go with some equipment of questionable questionable quality. Yeah, to Scotland. What sort of time of the year was this? Okay, so I said I left it around August time, but I can tell you exactly because it's a very strange occurrence days. It was actually on the ninth year to the day the Croydon riots happened, right. And if you're into your if you're into astrology, it was actually when Jupiter was in retrograde, which is she called the Lionsgate portal and the time of the Midas touch where everything you touch turns to gold. And I felt there was some meaning to that because I just seen the Joker movie and I had this weird feeling that the world was gonna turn to shit for some time. I mean, I don't usually talk to my family on WhatsApp, but I was in the family whatsapp group I was like, Guys, something bad's gonna happen I just say the Joker movie made me cry I didn't want to finish it I said I see too much of myself in this guy even though you know I'm not Joanne a dragon Phoenix even close my girlfriends I held my hands like stay and watch the film you paid for it son of a bitch. And I'm just like, okay you know, I made it Yeah, yes, dairy is scary. So, you know, you head out and you start living in the world and then the apocalypse scenario sort of becomes this sort of deep seated desire for it to actually happen because you're ready at this point. You're ready yeah. Then you'll be the guy everyone turns to but in reality life goes on doesn't that? Yeah. Yeah, it does. How do you you your journey up to from Lee leaving home yeah to Scotland was was that a wild journey from beginning to end? Or were you sleeping in shelters with other homeless people? Everything we are except from our volumous people. Oh you were solitary. I was I was on my own. And I I started out by reaching out to a friend who recommend I did care work because I used to know him at Bangor University when I studied mostly partying and dropped out I didn't want to go but it was the year David Cameron sort said 50% of all students and my mom said you have to go to uni is that I want to do video game design. She laughed said there's no courier feature in that. Oh, okay. And then he said to me, said, Tim, come stay with me on the couch whenever I meet my husband and you know, just chill with us. And I was like, Okay, fine. They were nice. But after the second or third day, when they realised that I'm not going to give them the pleasure of having a threesome with me, because I respect myself at this point. I set off again, and I didn't know what I was gonna do. So I had a friend, I'm Korean, and you're in a place in New York. So I put it up to your and then and then that's when Ben Nevis in and yeah, is when I met Bluey. And that is when I sort of started thinking, Okay, we're going to do the whole into the world. We're going to do the whole Yep. The Forrest Gump sort of idea. And, and to be honest, it was only later that I started to discover Michael Pailin. Yes, which is he's the original guy. And I really enjoyed watching some of those TV shows. He did a great deal to Paul didn't they all all over the world. It was but with a with a very conscious effort to be to be there. At that, at the time he was it wasn't quite the documentary. outsider, dude. can't try to pinch other local people's fedoras and stuff like he's just he's just having a laugh. Yeah. He was in the moment there which which which was fantastic. Okay, so there we are, we're off to bed Nana is probably going to be quite cold at the top of Ben Nevis. Right? What What have we learned on the way What if we? What if we picked up in terms of kit? What if we got rid of intensive care? Well, by the time I'd left, your I hadn't learned very much because I was still repeating a lot of mistakes. I was still getting too drunk. I went to the house of rambling madness and bought a ball contortion and got completely you know, spending spending money Universal Credit on alcohol, cuz I need didn't spiration at that point, but then, you know, one drop of inspiration, sure, but then a whole litre of it. That's when it becomes it becomes self destructive. And I tried to do some good things on the way I noticed the head chefs were essentially key workers so I might have a hotel raising world and when I went out pottering around the malls there for my test phase for wild living. I collected some local produce and made my own ice cream. And it was a wild ice cream. Yeah, well actually it's quite funny because at this point, I had the cream and I've been walking around with the cream for about two days and it resembles you know, sour milk at this point. So it's already partially wet. So then I got this head chef amazing world. And he's like Tim, fuck off. I don't believe you can make ice cream a lot. Okay, so I go, I go into the beer garden and I get to two forks and my sort of power rope and put them together and whisking in the whisking in the thing, and I'll just show him some whip is that how the fuck to do that? I didn't give you any tools. It's too busy to you, but I can do it. And then at this point says fine All right, you can use the phrase R and vallila I thought oh, I'm still drinking at this point. So I went down to the local brew shop and I bought some Thunder toffee vodka. I was like 50 quid You know, I'm so stupid. I don't have this money, but I do in the moment. I have to do things 100% or not at all. Which is why when I'm away from people, and I'm in the middle of nowhere, I can't spend my money, which is great. Because then then I can, you know, use my brain to get things done and Yeah, good. So our call was a problem. Was it inspiration or was it a release with the depression sometimes when I was walking through the malls, it would be raining and the ground would be water look at my boots would be wet. And I'd be walking up to 1015 miles a day with a 65 litre rucksack and it was the only thing that kept me going You know, a bottle of Napoleon brandy or something. And I wasn't eating, I wasn't being kind to myself, but then I wake up in the morning with a hangover and I discovered that I'm gonna live actually, if I drink in the morning with a hangover, it goes away, and then I'm up and I'm ready to go. But I, I've cut down on my drinking, especially when I had no money to drink, which was most of the time, but as soon as an hour, juice up, juice up, get inspired, when I'm juiced up, I'm inspired, I'm writing everything down, I'm getting in trouble, right? Do this do that. I'm reaching out to people. And I'm getting ideas. And, you know, I mean, my long term goal now is to get my parent motoring licence. So I can effectively make that a lifestyle either to go from A to B in the parent mode with my cat and Pam Yeah. Or to do something bigger and grander. I don't know. But easy get there first. It's not easy, but once you're there, you're there. And you can train other people to teach people to fly. I never drove. Maggie Thatcher said a man's a loser after the age of 25. He hasn't learned to dry while I'll be looking down from the skies. Fuck you know, I mean 26 learn to drive. Yeah. And um, okay, yeah, I had to give up my licence when I was 39 which is when I had my stroke. Yeah, and I developed epilepsy and they don't let you drive if you have epilepsy. haha so yeah, wasn't much fun to tell on but that is a crisis moment I that's kind of like soul destroying because you have a freedom and it's taken away from you because there's some bullshit which you can't control. How do you approach that this is you're looking into how mentally people rise up to occasions now people are probably listening thinking oh, this guy's an alcoholic that's how he copes and functions No, no, I was so much worse. I mean, I was briefly mentioned to you earlier that I did a sensory deprivation for about two three months which is when I didn't leave the room because I was just so wrapped up in my head when you left. Yeah, and I didn't even leave my room to go to the toilet I was doing no How would use pissing in bottles things I talked to my flatmates. There's something really wrong there. You know, I was filled with malice, hatred, hate myself hated everyone else went really, really bright wing. To the point that I was going to Whitehall and joining him at the rallies there. It took me a long time to sort of realise that it was actually my own negativity leaching out into the world that was making the world a shitty place. I had to leave Croydon, the place that made me sick. Yeah, get better. I a lot of people didn't understand that. Because I tried everything in Croydon to make it work. But sometimes you just have to leave. You have to go somewhere. You have to live. Yes, absolutely. And then actually quick question, which is, how's your battery? Because I know you're on your mobile phone. Are we are we good for battery or? Right? Wherever you talking about during those days? It was difficult. Right now. So that means I mean, right that Mark Yeah, right now it's great. Because I'm set up at a b&b. I've been been here for about a week now. Because local mind representative lump me in here. And it's been great. It's been it's been great because it makes it built trust in the system again, because battery is not an issue at all. I mean, also I have my my mom sent my PC over. So you know, I've got material goods, I've got battery, you know, and I'm hoping I can find a place to stay here permanently. Otherwise, I'm going to be back out again. And I don't mind that. I don't mind that. But I'm getting comfort again. I'm getting complacent again. Yeah. Well, I'm still figuring out you know, tell me more about your, your feelings when when you're out in the world. You saying that you don't you didn't have a sort of group of also homeless people. Well, what we are experiencing, we are experiencing loneliness. Where was your skill set? Did you think that you could cope and I was not alone. There's something called the law of averages that I found to be something that kept me going because you're constantly thinking about, oh, what am I going to do next? What am I going to do next? You sleep, you get up earlier and you're constantly doing something. And because I was travelling, I wasn't staying in one place and more than three or four days. I would meet people I'm a very social person I would approach people and I'll say hey, you know my name is Tim I've been travelling from here to here they go well, that's really cool, bro. Have some food. Yeah, you know, to everyone. I know, I had so many positive moments with so many people and I made so many genuine friends because the people I meet out in the world wanted to get away from the sea. So I wasn't hearing about the news. I wasn't hearing about Corona everyone was trying to escape from we were on the same level. And here we were, it didn't matter. I wasn't alone. Never at any point was I was more lonely surrounded by people in the sea than I was out there. strangers, strangers, that the the quality of people that you meet is completely different. I don't know, if you've been to any of the bushcraft meats or shows, particularly the bush craft make you walk in. And literally everybody is not the same as such, but has the same outdoor mentality. They are giving. They're giving skills, they're saving skills, they are humble and they have genuine and it just it doesn't work that sort of when you actually outdoors. Now don't give me on armchair experts. These are my least favourite people. They the armchair expert, that tells so many people on their vastly huge YouTube channel. Yeah, how something works. And then they obviously doesn't Well, it's not instructional as a form of passive aggressive, aggressive behaviour. And they're just trying to set it upon everyone is like no, we're just genuine Pete I mean, I noticed that the Polish labby forum is the one that I have joined I haven't got much experience like yourself in engaging with these kinds of groups before because it's new to me, but everyone on there doesn't have money to buy one of those. Cynthia what they called observe a sniper that is that they're going for the two Poncho things you know for Yeah. And they're all like passionate about this and it's sort of an inside joke is like Oh cool. Cool level, bro. Like Yeah, thanks. You know, just nice to each other. Yeah. And I love that I love that genuine people. And then you get you get someone who would post something every now and then it's like, they've got all the care they've got a Land Rover Defender with one of those roofs that goes up and yeah, like how many times a year do you take this? This house out that you have a witness? And they're like, Oh, just for a day I don't even sleep in it. Oh, here's my wife. I hate you. I hate you. You don't say it you don't say it because of course no course No. Um Okay, so we're on our way to what was the How long did it take you to get to to notice let alone um I mean yeah, so I mean I was very distracted in New York at this point. I still had savings and I was I was going left right there for I was going to halls to get the master rope experience and then that was closed and I'll be fine. You know, it goes to Wensleydale and they'll go Oh get some cheese. And it turns out that Wednesday Dale isn't even got the gift shop in Wednesdays in Hall so like Fox so go back to halls and then that's close and like shit. So I go back to Wednesday down and I find out that they use European milk in the first place. So I'm not going to get the genuine experience. You know, it's a lot of plastic culture and these sort of tourism parts where they're like, Hey, you come here you get that real genuine experience. But you only get that when you actually leave the trap. Do you know what I try never really understood why. Someone put cranberries in Wensleydale and it became so popular just like white Stilton with apricot the are these strange staples market magic cranberries. So again, you have a problem with cranberries. No I it's I've been to the Wensleydale cheese okay yeah it's a there's like 100 different is Wednesday day will with onions and Wensleydale with strawberry ice cream and all these things is that why cranberries are why only cranberries I mean it's just it's like an American influence because it's actually bought out by the Texans Believe it or not so I imagine they got their Thanksgiving projects shipped over and that's it know where these things you know events Okay, so we're on we're on our way What? What are we learning? What do we say what what key Are you acquiring? What kit Are you getting rid of? How are you learning? These I'll show you the best damn thing I bought. It was only 15 quid. I'm using it as a sort of turning my regular wooden chair into an armchair is the top seven Magnus you see here? Oh, I absolutely love it. It's also a great meditation blanket. Yeah, I mean, I had all these ground mats and they pop the air once a pop, you know, I mean, but this is just extra space. But heavier bass is the best. Yeah. That's that's the thing that people moan about the go, Oh, no, it's got to be lightweight, it's got to be expensive. It's got to be lightweight, it's expensive. And I admit that my my stuff, it's not ultra lightweight, but it's lightweight enough that I can carry it for 100 out for a mile with all fishing gear, and sometimes some of the client gear because they can't carry it. I and that is the crazy thing. Before I've set out. I've been training myself with weighted backpacks just to give myself exercise outside of the gym. My idea was that I was going to carry as much weight as I could, because I want to do everything. There was a point and this is when I told my rotary calf and sprained two ankles that I actually strapped together to 65 litre bags, because I was advertised was advertised as 120 litres. I got 65 it was that 20 pounds and these brand one, which is just too good to be true. So I just I lump the two together. And I had a stove on me as well. And a spade. So So I mean, I was going about 1015 miles with insane amounts of care. People say Look, you're skinny, but I know I'll take my top off and then look, my shoulder muscles are up to here, you know, it was physically very demanding process. And it was the rewarding factor of that at the end of the day collapsing each and every day, you know, and that's why the alcohol helps as well because it's painful. Your body doesn't have time to rest. You're moving constantly. And it was only when I stopped moving. Every now and then I realised how much I was putting my body through. And the mind became stronger during that. It didn't become weaker, it became stronger. Yeah, and I'm very happy. I like David Goggins. I like Jordan Peterson. I like all these inspirational people and listening to them absorbing them, and it's all connected. Yeah, yeah. So let's talk about mental resilience. The the problems you were facing, how? How did your mindset change on on your journey? What do you what do you feel that you you had you had to shed or that you had to acquire in order to carry on without falling into a pit of alcohol or giving up or returning to society because it's too difficult? Well, what was I gave up, I gave up I said, there's no future for me. I'm just gonna keep pushing myself till I die. But I was very, very vocal about that. I had someone in my family messaged me on Facebook and she's like, just get a job. I've been applying trying to get a job for a very long time. At this point. I was angry. So I said, Listen, I'm doing what I'm setting out to do. My she's married to my grandpa my grandpa is the next Formula One driver His name's john brennan. You can check it out and Brands Hatch. I reached out to him because I never really knew growing up and he said to me, 10 there's one thing else Brittany's do, we say what we're going to do. And if you say you're going to do something, you do it. And he also taught me to know my worth. He said, You know, I knew my worth from a young age I left this job they didn't pay me enough. And hearing this a man's advice because I mean the amount of hours to just don't grow up with decent advice from older people. Yeah, I mean the fact that you're you're 20 years your junior and you're still listening to me still interviewing me that that means a lot because how am I meant to learn what's in my head? If it's right or wrong? If I'm not allowed to speak it and have someone listen to it? That's the learning curve. I've still get things wrong all the time. I'm still Oh, who doesn't? Who doesn't get things wrong? Who, who's who's so up themselves? So they might say, oh, I've got it. I'm an expert. I've I have read all of this. Yeah. I have moms are moms no doubt joking. I've read all of this. I've researched I've been out there I've practised. I've talked to experts. I've I say I've experimented I balls things up, because you will know that you people will go Oh no, you don't grow through failure. It's like you bloody do grow through failure. It's almost mandatory to fail. When you say I wasn't afraid of failing because I knew at the end of the day that I'll be physically tired and I can Pull back on that I can say Well, hey, you can criticise me from the other side of that screen whilst I've been outside breaking my back. Yeah spraining my spraining my feet you know, Terry mercury cough getting dysentery from infected Glen water. You can my guts out moments you know, but outnumbered by the positivity and human kindness and your experience, you know is better than anything? I'm sure you familiar with who lofty Wiseman is? No, never Oh, you've no Tell me about him. lofty Wiseman wrote the SAS survival Handbook, which was like the seminal work on survival available to the public. Okay. And it was published when I was 13. And I ordered it from the bookshop and I queued, I was outside the bookshop, when it opened to get there. And um, yeah, it's, it's, it's amazing. And it's in 19 languages it's in. It was Collins HarperCollins, best seller, basically forever. And I think it's number one or number two, still in survival skills on Amazon. But one of the versions of it. I loved he now he's in his 70s will still say, I'm not an expert. Don't call me an expert. Yeah, that's grass hungry, right? Yeah. Do you think you can give that book to anyone who's homeless on that forum? And we will go back to the beginning is I asked a question on the wild camping forum. Anyone else homeless here? And then the responses? asked it. Yeah, yeah, that was amazing, right? Because I just got, I see. Yeah. And then I didn't clock that. It really blew up. And then there was 130 and 140 comments of people saying, if you're in this area, reach out to me, I'll give you a hotbed and thing I went to sleep that night feeling fucking great, because I wasn't needing help and charity at that point. Look, I'm in the b&b at the moment, you know, I mean, yeah. But I reckon like maybe, you know, if just one or two people are gonna have a nice sleep that night, it was something that I initiated, and I can't take credit for that. Maybe, you know, but also all the lovely people that reached out these are bush survival experts. They know what the core needs of a human being are. Yeah, it's the perfect place for a homeless person to reach out to effectively Absolutely. I mean, I got offered a LabVIEW 10 by some guy from your and I'll say I'll do that's great. I love lovies but I turned it down because I don't need it. You know, I'm looking to stay here now. I'm going to have a break. I'm going to my cash I'm going to save up. I'm going to be a positive impact on this community. I've already reached out to do some voluntary locally, and I've been helping a boy on my halls apply for jobs he's just out of the clanger so I mean I've tried to keep as active as possible and especially after the world because your brains like I've claimed Penny van twice in the last two days The first time was hard enough because it was in my kit. The second time I didn't want to do it, but I saw this guy just out of prison I'm like thought he's dead his eyes would dead man and he was like yeah, I'm gonna go back into drugs you know all that shit. I was like, fuck you're coming with me. And I took him up that mountain. Yeah, we have to turn back near the last 40 foot because at this point darkness has started to descend and it's very vertical climb from Bracken and I didn't want to be responsible for anything bad happening someone else so I said we'll turn back we'll climb again on Friday and sometimes you have to be sensible you know? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, absolutely the search and rescue operative which I did for many years while the yeah it's okay to just go into the day it really really is being mindful of problems this sort of situational awareness of what the problems could be with just sunset yeah that's that's a lovely Oh, if you've ever tried in the middle of nowhere and I'm sure you have in the middle of the nowhere gone you know what it's got a bit dark probably should like fire. Oh god. Yeah. Funnily enough, then about a week ago, I've been in this b&b for two or three nights and I had another extended family member Cheran talents, my credibility online. And I set out again, I was like, Fuck this. I'm going back out. It's about 10 miles at this point so as I said, I'm gonna walk to Aberystwyth from breckin walk and then I'm gonna follow the coast back to Scotland to Harris where there's less light pollution I can you know see Sagittarius out on my birthday or something like that you know i mean i found some toilet blocks and then the refer asked down here like 3045 foot drop at its pitch back on my old toilet box I don't have to do a slippery shear on the log in the morning camp here so I climb over the sort of road the blockade to the descent on the river OS and right right it's pretty dark and I got all my kit on my stove and shit I'm like felt this stupid but anyway I'll go with it. Do some Tarzan share grab some vines you know start pouring down I had the foresight to grab two vines. Because you know, one always breaks one one did not break but it's sort of snagged when it loosens on one side or like five and my cat swinging I'm aiming for a rocky outcrop This is at a point of view where the rivers completely overflowing it's like death before the I'm a fire sign aquarium does not like me so I'm slipping down on my house and I'm like oh fuck so this is where I am no Mike no no just focus you know here you'll be fine. I did I managed to get on this crop. And I get my goodie bag out I set fire for it it was bit wet but I had the foresight to pack my alcohol Joe and a bit sheets Will you wrap it around and log you get a mini sort of Indiana Jones branch like we're in scape style for you knows picture so it's beautiful. And then fall asleep. No tarp at this point. So I'm like a caterpillar my little bitty bear in my face Pocono snug, but then you know, 40 foot droplets from trees giving me a waterboarding process. The whole night is fun. Wake up in the morning, four hours back to the top and there's a lady in the baking buddy band just looking like what the fuck is going on with you? Do you take car she's like no, like, are you she's like well have a coffee then. But how many sugars she's satisfied? Oh, I'll take all of the saga. I will take all of the second I will use them. And if you have that Muscovado shit. I will take that too. Yeah, it keeps you going. keeps going. I never used to like sugary things. But when I started to push myself like that you need it. People. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Although I remember, I was doing a endurance walk. And that's the, this is where I discovered people will say about hitting the wall as a marathon Warner. I was doing 100k walk for the Berkeley welfare trust. And yeah, 6863 miles or something. And then the last little first 20 miles. I'm like, yeah, this is a good hike. Yeah. Yeah. 40 miles in. Yeah. It's like, yeah, we're in the middle of the night. Now. It's like three is still walking beside God. Actually, this is hard. Now what were you holding? Oh. 25 Li is something like that. No, yeah, it wasn't much because we every 10 miles. If it's a lot, if you're not, you have to break into it slowly. And for you to just bust out with a 25 litre pack for that distance is not easy, my friend. I bet you felt it the next day. Oh, I felt all sorts the next day. But yeah, we said 14 miles is like, Oh, this is serious. Yeah, this is this is like, I I can I can stop now. I can't stop now. Yeah, my bank brains trying to generate all of these excuses. As why I can stop. Yeah. So Oh, yeah. You try to best result? No, you didn't. Yeah, you did not. salutely everything you could to get yourself to that physical point. Yeah. And that's when you could go to sleep and you can be in your own power. You can stand in your own power. And anyone comes at you that night and tries to discredit what you do. They will bloody know how wrong they are. Not afraid to stand up yourself because you just stood up yourself. 40 miles. Yeah, 40 miles. Now we've got another 23 to do. Oh shit, right. And yeah, there's there's three of it by now from for. Yeah, my and yeah, this this is I yeah, sugar and painkillers is basically how we're getting there. And there's this chap. He's, he's we normally side by side. But he drops by a little bit and he's on the phone to his wife. Yeah, in tears. Yeah. And we just, we're just going and going and going and we get it. You've got 24 To do this beautiful, we got to come in with the race courses. Just near the downs. southdowns southdowns. I know the one. Yeah, like, yeah, Petersfield too. So anyway, there's a there's a race course. And that's where you finish. And you can see the clock. And we are we are in the last minute. Because we just pause the calculations up, complete. Yeah. Yeah, we're in the last minute. And I've got the photos to prove it that we sprinted. Yeah, we sprinted the last 50 metres and I've got a certificate that says 23 hours, 59 minutes and 56 seconds or whatever it was. Your body is just took over at that point, your mind. Feel mind and body big. brother and I, when I reached when I reached another softer walk in 400 500 miles, I didn't rest. I woke up that morning and I climbed my initial plan was to climate free times and do the free peak challenge because I don't drive. But I ended up just going up as quick as I could. And you know, I've got this tomorrow, cough sprained ankle as well. So I thought I'd do it my kit. And I was half clambering scrambling up going, and I did it. 140 minutes with my injuries to the summit. And I burst into tears. And it's like, what you just went through when you're going that last sprint? Yeah, I it becomes almost bliss. Oh, endorphins much? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. As an ex Otto, is the best hire you ever get is you can stand in your truth. And you know that you did your best to get there. Yeah. And I was at the end. And there's there's a left hand and, and they can give us med medals. And this little place to stand on. And I'm just like, Do I have to? Yeah, yes, you do. It says you fall into? Yeah. And yeah, just getting that leg up. onto that, please. Because in my mind I, I had finished. Yeah. And now it's like, I've already gone through carrying on. And now it's, oh, no, we've not finished. And just that step. And it's that experience from then on. I did it five times. We'll just catch. Yeah. DAF told me what carrying on was what exhaustion was. What giving everything is, and then how you can just give yourself loads loads of excuses. Yeah, it might be Oh, yeah. I'm homeless. I'm, I'm an alcoholic. I might as well just take heroin out. Oh, I might be so it's okay. I did my best or this or that. It could be anything. But it's this excuses. Yeah, it took me it took me years to realise that this was a thing in my head. That I had to have a word with myself, because it's impossible to be accountable to yourself. Because you've I'll tell you what, what when I started to make big changes in my life, I'd already given up inside I was actually just trying to act. I was trying to pretend that I was over. I faked it. I faked being happy. I faked being a positive role model to members of my family, younger ones who were in drugs and whatnot. You know, I was faking it. I was dead inside. But then slowly over time, I started to actually resemble the mask I was putting on in a good way. And then it started to become the I started becoming this positive guy who wasn't sleeping half a day and paying on the computer or all the time. You know, I was I was getting out there. I was pushing myself I was training for swimathon I was going to the gym every day. I went from 15 to 11 it was a tricky tricky thing. It was once once you stop pretending it's easy because you're at the back you're thinking home so full of shit, you know? We go so shit and I understand why I'm really irritating this person in the pub because obviously it's all Me, me me. This is what I'm doing about my life to get there. What are you doing? You're not doing it to benefit from other people's displeasure. You're doing it to prove that you can change and that's what happened slowly over time. Is the make or break moment I decided to just put on the mask? Pretend? Yeah. And I don't sometimes worry that if I get complacent again, I'll return back to that. But I think after going this far, I don't think I'll ever let that happen again, ever. Yeah, it's like when you stand on that plinth, and you take that photo, you can look back at that. And you can say, yeah, I've done that. I've done that. This is something monumental about bursting into tears at something. And I've had people on courses in tears, because they are just speaking of bursting into tears. I think the landlord I've left a load of my washing in the bathtub, and we got new people coming over it. really got to wrap this up like, Yeah, of course. Of course. Um, let me let me just let me just finish off with a couple of things then. So you've you've overcome a lot mentally, then you've learned a lot of skills. Do you think that now you could do any amount of outdoors anywhere in the world? What would how how are you bound now? aspirations for the future? Well, there's the paralysing, but there's also I want to climb Everest, I want to do this. I want to do that. I mean, I initially wanted to do winter camping so that I could train myself for even harsher environments. Yeah, some people are like, Oh, isn't that harsh enough? It's like yeah, I've done courses of minus 10. And that separates people. Yeah, it does. But you know what also separates me from minus 10 is my Arctic sleeping bag, so I'll be bouncing bomb one ones. Oh, I've got a stuck pack. Which is apparently good optimizer. 17. And then I've got the duck Spivey and then, but that sounds good. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Okay, so before you before you, thin out. You got anything to say. For people who are homeless people who need citizen skills? Yeah. ration just just hit it. If you're in a city and you're homeless, you can keep your dignity by getting out in the wild. That's all I've got to say. Brilliant. Brilliant. So it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you for taking the time they have to. We had a nightmare getting zoom together. Thank you for sticking with Yeah, but what followed was the jury my friend. So what I'm gonna say is any comments or questions that people might have or experiences, find them in the comments, and one or both of us or other people might answer those or get in touch or reach out in some way. But for now, thanks for watching. Thanks for coming on to me, and thank you. We'll see you in the next episode.